Posts by defender of truth

754

Theists, why does God allow suffering..

by The Quiet One in

..specifically, the suffering of animals.

you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.

i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.

defender of truth

cofty posted 2 years ago (3/2/2012)
Post 2680 of 13507
Joined 12/19/2009
"Take just the one example of the cheetah. Every feature of its body is designed to catch prey and tear it apart. Its eyesight, hearing, camoflague, teeth, claws, skeleton, muscles and digestive system. Its very muscle fibers called myosin are of a particular type that permits it to accelerate to 60mph to catch its hapless victims.
So how many of these features did the cheetah have before the naked lady listened to the talking snake and ate the fruit?
Now ask yourself the same questions for every one of the millions of predator and parasitic species on the planet."
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/222352/6/Theists-why-does-God-allow-suffering

2596

The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty in

yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

defender of truth

"Would any good parent choose to allow their children to suffer, in order for others to be moved to try to alleviate their childrens pain, fear, and anguish? When the parent could fully remove their suffering immediately?"
In case it was unclear, I was here referring to the God of Christian theism.

2596

The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty in

yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

defender of truth

'3 - God uses suffering like the Asian tsunami to teach us about compassion'

God allows people to go through intense physical and mental suffering, so that others can suffer (perhaps even more than the person themselves, if it was your child especially..) and be moved to try to temporarily help or alleviate the pain of another person who suffers? That sounds like a cycle of unnecessary suffering to me.

Would any good parent choose to allow their children to suffer, in order for others to be moved to try to alleviate their childrens pain, fear, and anguish? When the parent could fully remove their suffering immediately?

No human can fully heal another. Many wounds never heal, despite the compassion that we may show to a person.

And from another angle...
If you were in severe pain, would you deny yourself pain-killers and spend the rest of your life in agony, in order to increase your compassion for those who are in constant pain?
No?...
Then why does God think that people must lose those that they love in disasters, and be moved by other disaster victims suffering, so that they learn to have compassion?
Many have been so badly hurt by the immense suffering of themselves or of others, that they stop caring about people or life altogether.

.......
"for there is nothing heavier than compassion. Not even one's own pain weighs so heavy as the pain one feels with someone, for someone, a pain intensified by the imagination and prolonged by a hundred echoes."
Milan Kundera, The Unbearable Lightness of Being
....

"Not all scars show, not all wounds heal. Sometimes you can’t see the pain that someone feels."

754

Theists, why does God allow suffering..

by The Quiet One in

..specifically, the suffering of animals.

you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.

i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.

defender of truth

Twitch posted 2 years ago (3/1/2012)
Post 3783 of 4202
Joined 3/20/2005
"A buddy has a saying 'there is no altruism in nature' and I think it rings true. Mother Nature is unforgiving and ruthless. The young, the weak and the sick are usually the first to go. Many species breed fast and in large quantities just to ensure enough live long enough to reproduce. Even dem cute lil mice will eat their young. Ain't no picnic living in the forest, Yogi.
If god knows when a single sparrow falls, then I wonder what he does to ignore the constant din of all creation at any given point."
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/222352/4/Theists-why-does-God-allow-suffering

21

AJWRB Press Release

by Lee Elder in

we are responding the announcement by ashya king's father that he will allow.

blood transfusion if medically necessary.

those not familiar with the story can.

defender of truth

Good news..
" Brave Ashya King finally had his first bout of hi-tech laser therapy as it was revealed his brain cancer had not spread.
The five-year-oldwas said to be showing a “lot of improvement” and a top doctor said he had been “smiling and moving his hands and limbs”.
Tests were carried out to check whether traces of the disease had passed to other parts of his body, but the results came back negative. "

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ashya-king-showing-a-lot-4265791

21

AJWRB Press Release

by Lee Elder in

we are responding the announcement by ashya king's father that he will allow.

blood transfusion if medically necessary.

those not familiar with the story can.

defender of truth

" The Kings’ eldest son Danny had earlier defended his father Brett, due to appear in court on Monday at an extradition hearing with wife Naghmeh.
Speaking to leading local Spanish paper Sur as he left the hostel where they were arrested with the five siblings he is now looking after, the 22-year-old said:
“My parents are not kidnappers.
“They just want the best for our brother Ashya with an alternative type of treatment to the one he was receiving at the hospital in England.
“It might seem like madness what we’ve done coming here by car from Great Britain but it’s got nothing to do with the fact we’re Jehovah’s Witnesses.
“When they operated on him two months ago, we agreed to them doing blood transfusions but thankfully it wasn’t necessary."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/11067254/Ashya-Kings-brother-defends-parents-actions-as-couple-await-court-ruling-in-Spain.html

21

AJWRB Press Release

by Lee Elder in

we are responding the announcement by ashya king's father that he will allow.

blood transfusion if medically necessary.

those not familiar with the story can.

defender of truth

" The eldest of the Kings’ sons, Danny...
"When they operated on him two months ago, we agreed to them doing blood transfusions but thankfully it wasn't necessary. "
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/live-updates-ashya-king-found-4137991

....

" King, who is a Jehovah's Witness, also dispelled concerns expressed by Czech doctors over a possible blood transfusion for Ashya, telling AFP he would not object on religious grounds.
"It's not for a parent to decide this, the hospital staff will decide," he said. "
http://news.yahoo.com/british-cancer-boy-ashya-king-heads-treatment-prague-071912045.html

.....

Okay? Now that we are sure, can someone please suggest this story to the BBC? They can investigate for themselves anyway..

21

AJWRB Press Release

by Lee Elder in

we are responding the announcement by ashya king's father that he will allow.

blood transfusion if medically necessary.

those not familiar with the story can.

defender of truth

Submit the story at this link, somebody, please.
I can't, you have to leave contact details..

http://bbc.com/news/10725415

21

AJWRB Press Release

by Lee Elder in

we are responding the announcement by ashya king's father that he will allow.

blood transfusion if medically necessary.

those not familiar with the story can.

defender of truth

"Please do what you can to circulate or distribute this to as many individuals
and news outlets as possible."
If anyone tweets, can you pass this story on to the BBC? Big coverage that way..

https://twitter.com/BBC_HaveYourSay

754

Theists, why does God allow suffering..

by The Quiet One in

..specifically, the suffering of animals.

you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.

i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.

defender of truth

Psac gave me permission to post this (from his PM),
he said that he would post it actually but never got around to it, I guess. So rather than me keep ranting on, here is another perspective. What do you think?..

Psacramento said: "Why would God allow suffering of innocent animals (one can argue that humans suffer because they are NOT innocent)?

It is important to understand that the world is the way it is because no other world would produce THIS type of life.
It may seem to us to be cruel and unfair yet without all the natural "evil" that happens, we and the animals on this planet would NOT be here.
It may seem a huge waste for millions of species to be eradicated and become extinct over the billions of years the Earth has existed BUT that is only because WE FEEL that it shouldn't be that way, BUT WHY do we feel that way?
Because something in us knows that it is NOT supposed to be that way, something is wrong with the way things are right now.
Survival of the fittest and animal suffering go hand-in-hand, so why would a non-believer have issue with animal suffering at all?

They shouldn't.
But what about the believer? the believer in a LOVING God?
Well, God's ultimate goal is for life, ALL LIFE to be far beyond what it is now ( the bible is silent on immortality of animals) and HUMANS are to be the caretakers of this planet, it is OUR job to take care of all animals and that means to minimize their suffering of course, that we don't has to do with US and not God.

BUT isn't that letting God off the hook for His OWN creation?
No, because nowhere does it say that God is suppose to make life RIGHT NOW better for ANYONE or ANYTHING.
God sustains creation, He does NOT control it, He guides it to what it WILL BE but does not interfere in how it is getting there because it MUST get there on ITS OWN.
This may not be the the answer you want or even like to hear and you may think it makes God look heartless and cruel BUT remember this: God so loved His Creation that He become MAN and suffered and died along with it to show that, to show How MUCH He loves His creation.
Loves it enough to suffer along side with it AND loves it enough to allow it to grow and evolve on its own."